Talk:Api Shigekax
Disambiguations With the disambiguation pages you only confuse the subject matter. Lirielle, why did you change the Effect back to quote, "Activates the Apple Shigekax Boost"? That information is NOT helpful in any way! I think the disambiguation pages are an entire waste of a reader's time and effort. Why would you split this information? Apple Shigekax is not regarded as two separate items within the game, so why would you provide two catastrophically different articles which address the item as two separate things? One article describes the candy and where to get it, the other ONLY specifies the effect and labels it as a "boost food". Entirely un-resourceful. Your edits are damaging the effectiveness of this site. Let me begin by moving the pages for you to a more relative location. DMAftermath 23:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)DMAftermath :Things are not always as they look. Shigekaxes candys and boots ARE treated as two items by Ankama, though it is not obvious for the user. When you use the candy, you activate the boost and an icon appears on top of your window (if your game parameters are set to display boosts) and this is wher yoiu find the description for the boost. For the sake of the Candy page and its table, though I'll reconsider the way to state it, but both pages are going to exist on the wikia. --Lirielle 01:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC) But, even still, The item boost is a direct result of the such said item. Therefore, and logically speaking, regardless of what Ankama thinks, the boost/effect/buffer is henceforth a part of that item. Look at this loophole you are sustaining. If such is true then that would mean every single item and every single corresponding counterpart effect would need to be severed as a separate item. Meaning a mass alienation of items from their effects. What par say do you believe is the difference between a Shigeax candy and an Apple? If there are major and significant differences that we ( the community ) don't know about then how about you add some of your helpful information to these articles instead of insisting on such a minuscule matter. Where did you get such a notion anyway? Personally, i see it perfectly fit that the boost be part of the item. But it's not like people are getting this confused, as would be the issue with a Feca's Teleport and Xelor's Teleport. Or a Dopple, be it an item, or monster, or Lv. 200 class summon. But there is NONE confusion when it comes to an item and its effect. This dissociation is redundant and pointless.DMAftermath 03:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)DMAftermath :When you eat an Apple it gives you +Life and that's all. When you eat a Shigekax, it starts a boost that is displayed as a 'spell effect' and has a duration (like, say, transformation). I agree it would be better to call it 'boost' (or 'food boost' ;) ) than 'boost food' but that's how Ankama calls it and we have always followed Ankama's item categorization. We have pages for transformations, following characters, blessings... which operate similarly, why shouldn't we have pages for boost food? --Lirielle 03:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC) You still don't see how it's the same thing? It doesn't matter if the spell or item creates a fully functional circus on your head for a year, the effect is a direct result of that item or spell. And therefore heavily linked to that item. Do you not see how the "effect" of this item gives its consumer a boost? You can "describe" the effects as much as possible but it wont make it a separate object. O-k. You physically eat a peppermint disc. it gives you a sugar rush for 4 hours. how is the rush NOT a direct effect of the peppermint disc? this just undermines logic. :Yeah. Ankama complicated it. Nonetheless there IS an Apple Shikegax candy and there IS an Apple Shikegax boost food. So both are listed. --Lirielle 03:38, 5 March 2009 (UTC) The only complication here is that Ankama doesn't tell you that a buffer and an item ARE separate objects and are only revered to as such when PROGRAMMING the game. Such is true with any game. Of course i know they are separate instances of coded objects, but if everyone knew that then things wouldn't be so much fun anymore. "eating" the candy instead of "triggering a variable". The effect is a direct effect of consuming the object, which then activates a variable which then calls another corresponding object to the stage, whether present on the client or on the server. The variable is then declared "true" and the boost food object actualizes the desired effect. :/ --DMAftermath 03:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)DMAftermath :I have made a compromise suggestion, please now wait for other wikians' comments. Thanks. --Lirielle 03:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC) ::Okay. Lets wait.--DMAftermath 03:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)DMAftermath Broadway, what are your thoughts? :Where? Who? A "Boost Food" is quite clearly a little icon up the top of your screen, which gives you a temporary boost, rather like a Blessing. A "Candy" is a little sweet, sometimes one that gives you the boost food. Bontarian Ice Cream don't. Do you confuse a present with the box it comes in? AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 11:35, 5 March 2009 (UTC) ::I may have to agree with Lirielle, the candy its an item, that can be drop to the floor, can be sell, has weight, has a price for selling to the npc, has no effect description and has flavor text, while the other is a temporal bonus with a time/use limit, no price, no weight. At the end one is an item, the other is a temporal effect, that for display reasons both are using the same template but in the future will not -- I must say, you've gotten me. Doesn't mean you're right by any means though. Your intelligence goes about as far as the sensibility of this game. If someone doesn't understand that a "buffer" is the original extended word for "buff" (when MMORPG's were first created), or for that matter an extended effect (a true buffer, or "buff" as you call it) being solely the result of a consumed item then i leave you to your idiocies. A buffer is precisely what you get. By leaving the description of an Effect as is, you are saying that the effect of consuming such an item gives you "'Buffer'". That's not helpful. ~~DMA Sorry, but i had to add this. A Blessing, which spawns an effect item (or in the same sense, a "boost food" *haha*cough*), called Elasticity. This article is a prime example of helpfulness. What you all have stood for in this discussion is contradicted by this article. In the exact same sense of a shigekax candy, you get a buffer. Its exactly the same thing! Why can't you get this? It's so simple. Either put the two articles back together or disambiguafy the whole damn wikia. --DMAftermath 20:26, 5 March 2009 (UTC)DMAftermath :It shall be so. Still, for the sake of me putting more than a line, I may as well say this: it's easy to have your own view and to express it, what's not easy is understanding the views of others. It's all well and good you writing these page long arguments on why they shouldn't be disambiguated, it's all good keeping this argument going, but at the end of the day you've had three people already state that they disagree, two of whom are Admins on this Wiki, it seems (At least from those who have posted here) that public favour is with Disambiguations. You can continue to argue your point, there's nothing wrong in that, but by the looks of it you'll just be beating a dead horse. Also here's something to think on, this is an 8000 page Wiki (Excluding Redirects etc.) you try single handedly maintaning all of those articles to a similar template. If you want to do something make it creative, don't waste your time arguing, less you come up with something groundbreaking. Your time would much better be spent looking at and enforcing a template for these pages which you seem so caught up with (Working with other Users on it's creation mind). Galrauch (talk) 20:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC) ::I respect this. And i have done several compromises, none of which have been sustained, and imo haven't had a chance to be viably worked out. Instead I get this smothering haunt. So for future reference I may consult with you or one of other administrators, whom i respect, my ideas. I don't like being dilapidated by certain people. +DMAftermath 21:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC) :::just to additional note take the admin fact away. If there more people support DMAaftermath argument we can follow it even if admins dont like the idea that is consensus, the current consensus is to keep the items from the blessings/curse/food bost/etc separate, and as Galrauch said it would be best to correct those discrepancies we own have we are humans at the end. With lots of pages and the fact that every one can add/change stuff its not easy to be consistent in 100% thats the idea of MediaWiki that every one gives its 2 cents of help. -- Ok, so asking on a more particular matter, can we roll back the clock and take a look at the edit I've done? Can you tell me what's wrong with it if there's something wrong with it instead of simply wiping it off of wikia. This is why I'd like to discuss that. This is why I'm feeling offended. What's wrong with calling a boost food a buffer? or a buff? The effect indeed does trigger the boost effect item, but the effect is also the result of that said boost. Therefore i make motion and find it essential that the Effect describe the finalized result of such said items and boosts. (e.g. it is not helpful describing the effect as "Activates the '*blank candy* boost food", when it's same as saying "Activates 'Buff'".) +DMAftermath 03:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC) :"And i have done several compromises": you must be joking? The starting point was to describe the effect as 'activates boost'. You wanted to have the final effect directly described. Anyone looking at the history will see that you only deleted the 'activates boost' part until *I* made a suggestion where *both* were stated. A compromise which I stated from start that I would consider. This should satisfy both parties. And after that your only "compromise" is to move the 'activates boost' to a "summary" section, effectively deleting it from the Effects. :*You wanted the final effect to appear in the Effects field? It does. The solution may not be 100% satisfying for you, but stop saying that you are not being listened to, that we "wipe off" your edits. On another page (AP Boosting), you accuse me of having deleted your stuff when I have not, you complain that the page is marked for deletion when the discussion clearly states that the proposal is to implement your idea but on another page. Elsewhere, you claim that I stole "your idea" when it has been implemented in 2007 and you stand on your position after you have been showed that you were wrong... On this very page, after I suggested a compromise, you wrote "Okay. Lets wait." (see above, edit as of 04:55, 5 March 2009), but only after reverting back to your idea and after that, you continued applying your idea to other pages... So guess who is not listening? ::*I'm sorry you read that little bit. It's changed now because I'd discovered you hadn't deleted it. Immediately after discovering you hadn't. Within the first five minutes of creating that page, layered after my own user page, was it gone. It was not meant to be seen. Convenient you were there to watch it though. Does it still say that now? :/ -DMA@ 09:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC) :* As Cizagna points out, this is all about going for a consensus. "If more people support DMAaftermath argument we can follow it". The suggested compromise has been supported by other people. I guess other people might support your idea of having the final effect clearly stated, which is the case now. I have seen no one else supporting your claim that a reference to Api Shigekax (boost food) should not (also) appear in the Effects. That is where we stand now, so, unless the consensus changes, this is how it is going to be. --Lirielle 05:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC) It seems I'm not the one with an attitude. Weren't we just talking about the edits here? And might I add, you have been hounding me relentlessly ever since i touched your precious articles. Get back on subject. You may be an administrator, but that gives you no right to belittle my contributions. +DMAftermath 08:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Actually, truth of the matter be told, the spawning of a the boost food item is not an effect. The boost food item has an effect. When the effect item, or "boost food" in this case, is activated the effect is a plus 10 Prospecting sustained by a boost food object. The Apple Shigekax boost itself is an event. Maybe you should reconsider changing that part where it is described as an "effect" to "Event" and leave the effect be what the absolute effect is. Solves all our problems. +DMAftermath@ 08:59, 6 March 2009 (UTC) :We agree that the final effect is +10 Prospecting right? Your point of view is that the candy triggers that effect and subsidiarily triggers a boosting "event". Mine is that the candy triggers the boost and the boost gives +10 Prospecting. :May sound nit-picking obviously, but I try to keep some consistency within the wikia. You may consider being followed by Stellia Blutzell as an event, but it is treated as an item in Dofus, within the category "Following Characters". Similarly, it is treated as an item on the wikia (item template, etc.), and it has been so from the very beginning. So is the Api Shigekax (boost food), whether you like it or not. I am NOT implying that things must remain as they are, just that I'm following a logic and keeping to a consensus and NOT hunting you. For each of my edits, I explained the rationale. And insisted that I did not blame you for your edits, but that I needed to revert/edit them for grounded reasons. I think you have now accepted that Api Shigekax (candy) and Api Shigekax (boost food) are (technically) different things and that, for the consistency reasons reminded here, we keep separate pages for them. I think (hope) you have also admitted that all my other edits were justified. I hope you now understand that my 'itemlist' edit was meant as a help and not a rejection of your edits. The only real disagreement we have is here. Therefore, I cannot accept that you claim my being hounding you relentlessly. Similarly, there is no such thing as "my precious articles". Nothing is mine here and I never claimed it to be so. I am a contributor as you are and we are both dependent on other user's inputs and the consensus that may arise. As I already told you, you are taking things too personally. And you're being unfair when you claim that I'm hounding you or when you imply that I'm pluming myself on being an admin (in such a way that I would be "belittling your contributions"). I'm assuming your good faith, the least you can do is treat me the same way. :So, back to the point. We have a disagreement. Let the community settle it. :--Lirielle 10:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC) :: And still waiting on the community. All in good faith and favour, an event is an action. Which fails to effectively be an effect. The pronounced effect here is a plus 10. Also, as you speak of consistency you aren't really being consistent with the articles referenced earlier be they blessings or transformations. A blessing fundamentally acts the same as does a boost food. Globally known as an effect item. The item itself is not an effect, but rather it actualizes the effect. The Action taken which in turn triggers an event which then creates the desired effect item. From start to finish there is no effect. But to preserve consistency and accuracy, it would make most sense to label not only the effects but the events as well. Which I believe would be most logically placed in the Summary or Notes section of an article. Now, this is not to say I don't hear you. I've been hearing you very loud and well, reading your posts with uttermost diligence. And basically I keep hearing the same thing. No matter what i think or believe, or what is most logical no matter how well-presented, you will not change this article. Blankly said. Sorry to say, but 90% of the time communities don't frankly care about misdemeanor matters and the notion to change. Meaning, "consensus? what consensus??". Which means that you win admin. But i have a cursed noble heart, which will not let me rest unless my proposal has been fairly reviewed and considered, and I'll just continue speaking until I am heard. Even with the avid knowledge that other buffs act the exact same way as items, and is already contradicted by an un-disambiguafied Blessings page, complete with an all-new item list showing each of the spells and their effects, you agreeingly insist that I''' am wrong and it will not change, aside from what you feel comfortable with. Other admins back you up. But the facts stand true anyway. Bigger than I, you see these articles for yourself. You even edited these articles. What ever could possibly be preventing you from seeing the inevitable similarities? What?? You say you're being logical and sensible in good faith and all, waiting on the sacred consensus to come forth, when things like that are still on the wiki. So I'm trying to be polite while still pointing out the speed bumps, and I hope I'm not being too harsh. With respect, +DMAftermath 11:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC) :::Let us discuss this sensibly. The shigekax gives you a boost food (an effect item), which provides you with the stat boost, in the same way that equipment does, sort of. A blessing skips the shigekax part, which is why they don't need a disambig. A following character seems to be an attempt to explain these things in terms you understand. I don't personally understand all this programming stuff, but what you were/are trying to do will really shake up this wikia. If you want to do something that big, you really should either ask an admin if it's a good idea first, or make a Forum page and ask an admin to put it on the Sitenotice so that the community can comment. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 12:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC) ::::I'm glad you see the effect similar to armour effects. Therefore, in what sense is a Blessing '''not like a Shigekax candy? Because, in effect, the buff received by either can be considered to act as a "Temporary" Armour (Ethereal Armor if you know the weapons). So define what you mean by "the Shigekax part". To me, that's just the name of the type of Candy. +DMAftermath 12:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC) a.k.a. DMA ::::And yes I do rock this hoo hah. :p -DMA :::::The shigekax is the candy part (Api Shigekax (candy)) and the buff is the Api Shigekax (boost food) part. To use my previous metaphor, the candy is the box, and the buff is the wonderful gift inside! About your edits on blessing, are the resistances ones only effective in pvp? Or in pvm as well? If the former, your edits may have to be reverted for clarity reasons. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 13:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::Remember what I said about that thing in the box? Well, when it comes out it's an event. Needless to say, but the event isn't a effect. Lets put this to a broader scale. You light a match, which then ignites fuel fumes in a forest which causes an uncontrollable wildfire that burns the entire jungle down. The event which happend? You lit a match. The effect? A fire which burned the forest down. I'm not sure if i can make this an clearer. (side note: Show me how to get this consensus thing going.) +DMAftermath 13:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC) a.k.a DMA